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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Sith1s Spectre
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982
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Posted - 2014.05.06 22:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
Pasted on behalf of our Napoleon Aldent from the other thread that got locked.
Nullsec residents are provided with a static database dump containing absolute coordinates for systems in Eve which allows third party applications to calculate the light years between these systems. This is also information that is not readily available inside the client, and has also been used to develop third party applications which are critical to everyday life in null-sec (e.g. GARPA). By being able to calculate jump ranges in advance - outside of the client - cap pilots and their FCs are able to make judgement calls and react faster than they would normally be able to otherwise.
Fundamentally, this is no different than having NPC kills available via the API. It provides an indirect method of promoting content generation via our mappers the way tools like GARPA promote content in null-sec. It gives us intel on a system allowing us to make judgement calls before we fully scout a system. Neither light year calculations nor WH NPC kill activity are available inside the client, yet we have thriving third party apps that rely on both of these to facilitate the daily operations of their users.
If you're going to start holding yourselves to a standard in which third party applications cannot provide more information than what is available inside the client, then I challenge you to hold null-sec to the same standard you are asking wormhole space to be held to. What you are proposing sets our community back a significant amount without providing a rational justification for doing so, and I think you would see the same reaction from null-sec residents if they understood the potential implications of this "equality doctrine" you wish to enforce.
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Sith1s Spectre
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983
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Posted - 2014.05.06 22:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Pasting my post from the other thread
Let me try and give you a constructive post with reasons.
1 - This data can be used by someone interested doing log off traps, as it can give us information as to when the residents are active and can plan accordingly
2 - Farmers (IE people who's sole purpose in WH space is to grind sites and nothing else) already have it too easy with instant sigs showing up which has already impacted our section of space greatly and already given a significant advantage to the defender for no work what so ever. I'd challenge you to say at least this is fair in the repect that everyone can see this information and that the defender can always change up the times they do their activities as to confuse the attacker.
3 - If this change does go through it will encourage even more farmers within the higher end holes who will give nothing back to the community and continue to farm with even greater security. This is something that we (the broader community of WH space) will not want.
4 - Seeing a blip of activity on one of the 20+ wormholes we have scanned and have connected to us promotes activity within our corporation. Meaning our members will actively look for the source of that activity which usually results in PvP
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Sith1s Spectre
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983
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Posted - 2014.05.06 22:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Querns wrote:Sith1s Spectre wrote:Pasting my post from the other thread
3 - If this change does go through it will encourage even more farmers within the higher end holes who will give nothing back to the community What exactly does "giving back to the community" entail in the context of wormhole space?
I can explain what not giving back to the community is. Set up small POS only, move in 2 carriers and 2 dreads. Live out of the carriers and farm constantly logging off as soon as a new signature spawns from the instant signature generator.
Destroying the POS achieves nothing as the people who use this mechanic can essentially have their risk free PVE
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Sith1s Spectre
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987
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Posted - 2014.05.06 22:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Querns wrote:Sith1s Spectre wrote:Querns wrote:Sith1s Spectre wrote:Pasting my post from the other thread
3 - If this change does go through it will encourage even more farmers within the higher end holes who will give nothing back to the community What exactly does "giving back to the community" entail in the context of wormhole space? I can explain what not giving back to the community is. Set up small POS only, move in 2 carriers and 2 dreads. Live out of the carriers and farm constantly logging off as soon as a new signature spawns from the instant signature generator. Destroying the POS achieves nothing as the people who use this mechanic can essentially have their risk free PVE I still don't follow. Why is this bad? Do you feel entitled to PvP in a wormhole?
No I don't feel entitled to PvP. I do feel entitled to tools that have been available to me for the years I have been within WH space.
I also feel entitled to have our (the people who live in WH space) thoughts and considerations taken seriously, not just mentioned on page six in a back end thread. How it looked was we've decided to change this, change my mind if you can...
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Sith1s Spectre
Rolled Out
987
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Posted - 2014.05.06 22:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Querns wrote:Sith1s Spectre wrote:Querns wrote:
I still don't follow. Why is this bad? Do you feel entitled to PvP in a wormhole?
No I don't feel entitled to PvP. I do feel entitled to tools that have been available to me for the years I have been within WH space. Looks like it's time to disabuse yourself of this entitlement. :sun:
Please tell me more about your experience within WH space
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Sith1s Spectre
Rolled Out
987
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Posted - 2014.05.06 23:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Querns wrote:Sith1s Spectre wrote:Querns wrote:Sith1s Spectre wrote:Querns wrote:
I still don't follow. Why is this bad? Do you feel entitled to PvP in a wormhole?
No I don't feel entitled to PvP. I do feel entitled to tools that have been available to me for the years I have been within WH space. Looks like it's time to disabuse yourself of this entitlement. :sun: Please tell me more about your experience within WH space Ah, yes, argument from authority. Please, continue to insinuate from my alliance name my experiences in Eve: Online.
And yet you don't answer the question... kinda proves my point
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Sith1s Spectre
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999
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Posted - 2014.05.08 23:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Andski wrote:
"but local"
...has nothing to do with wormholes
See you may be right on the statement that it has nothing to do with wormholes, however you're wrong about why we keep bringing it up.
CCP has stated that they never intended local to be used in the way it is in nullsec for intel purposes which is exactly the same way they never intended the NPC API data to be used the way it is.
So fundamentally - these 2 things are very similar in the fact that they are both being used by players in a way CCP never envisioned they would be.
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Sith1s Spectre
Rolled Out
999
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Posted - 2014.05.08 23:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Meytal wrote:
The hunters in W-space are backed into a corner as more and more of the methods and tools they use to hunt are being taken away, and more and more safety is being given to those who do not wish to engage in this game's primary, core reason for existence: ship-based PvP combat. It's natural to expect such behaviour when continually backed into a corner.
Those who wish to exist in W-space simply to farm NPCs for ISK are of course in agreement with CCP's course of action. Sadly, the largest voice on the CSM belongs to groups who only care about W-space as an ISK farm, since the "real" action happens in Nullsec.
CCP, yes, the arguments you are using are in fact justifying the removal of the data. However, before responding to cries from any of your friends who may have fallen prey to an efficient, properly-executed Russian Logoffski trap, consider how you have been harming the PvP gameplay in Wormhole space, space many of us have considered the best part of the game that you guys have ever made, and how you may have driven some groups to this tactic because of your recent changes to the game.
Quoting the gems in this post that sum up our concerns and the reasons why we're so frustrated with the proposed change
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Sith1s Spectre
Rolled Out
1000
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Posted - 2014.05.09 04:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
See - for me the solution is simple - remove the instant sig overlay spawn thing and make everyone have to use probes to find/see signatures and I wouldn't have a problem with the changes.
But as it is the PvE guys in WH space have it too easy and this will only make things easier for them.
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Sith1s Spectre
Rolled Out
1014
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Posted - 2014.05.13 02:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Thanks for pretending to listen to us and then doing what you were going to do anyway.
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